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WEBINAR: Pinch Analysis and Energy Reclaim

In this webinar, Nathan Deutsch, P.E. presents our approach to energy reclaim and focuses on the capabilities of our state-of-the-art Pinch Analysis software.

In this presentation, Nathan covers:

  • Energy savings through Pinch Analysis
  • Data collection requirements and what information is needed for analysis
  • Pinch Analysis software capabilities
  • Evaluation of Waste Heat Recovery

Below is the transcript of the presentation:

Tim Upton
Alright, so we’re gonna go ahead and get started. So hello, everybody, and thank you for joining us today. I want to make sure that you all can hear us, which I’ve got a few answers back. So it looks like you can so perfect on that. Thank you.

And we’re gonna go ahead, get started. My name is Tim Upton, and I’ll be your host. First, I’d like to introduce our speaker, Nathan Deutsch. He’s going to give us his presentation, which will be about 20 minutes, followed by a 10 minute question and answer session. So if you think of any questions during the presentation, please go ahead and enter them into the chat box at any time.

0:1:20.250 –> 0:1:49.460
Tim Upton
So I’d like to introduce our speaker Nathan. He’s a process engineer with over 10 years of experience in process and facility engineering and as well versed and process safety, food safety, energy reclaim and debottlenecking of facility utilities.

He’s worked in industries ranging from soybean extraction and prep to corn milling, pet food and sugar processing. Prior to joining ADF engineering, Nathan served as a coop for GE Aviation and Quaker Chemical Corp and during this time he had experience and quality control and process safety.

Nathan holds a BS in chemical engineering from the University of Dayton and is certified engineer in Ohio. So with that, I’ll hand it over to Nathan for today’s presentation on pension analysis and energy reclaim.

0:2:16.950 –> 0:2:19.960
Nathan Deutsch
Alrightly then. Thank you, Tim, for the introduction.

0:2:20.360 –> 0:2:49.160
Nathan Deutsch
Uh, get right into it. The agenda today is gonna go through a little bit of what a pinch analysis is, the steps that are taken to performing pinch analysis, particularly the steps that ADF engineering believe are important, the benefits of the software that we use here at ADF for pinch analysis and then a couple examples of some of the projects that may result from a pinch analysis.

0:2:50.850 –> 0:2:53.340
Nathan Deutsch
So a little background on pinch.

0:2:54.650 –> 0:3:24.900
Nathan Deutsch
Some of you have probably heard of it. Some of you may be very familiar with it, but either way the the approach was created by a scientist named Lynn Hoff in the early 1980s, and it gained a lot of attention and it’s actually quite widely used in oil refineries and in chemical facilities, and the energy crisis in the 80s really highlighted the benefit of doing energy recovery at a facility because as energy prices go up, the payback for energy recovery projects also.

0:3:25.0 –> 0:3:34.180
Nathan Deutsch
Uh becomes a lot more palatable. So currently we’re kind of seeing a renewed interest in in pinch analysis and other energy saving initiatives.

0:3:34.860 –> 0:3:52.170
Nathan Deutsch
Due to kind of the same effects, energy prices are climbing. There’s, you know, other interests from addressing climate change. And then there’s incentives available, such as SLS, which have specific energy or targets that grant favorable loan terms.

0:3:54.860 –> 0:4:15.970
Nathan Deutsch
So what is a pinch analysis? Actually, the term pinch was originally coined with with heat pinch or energy pinch, but there’s other types of pinch which we’re not gonna get into today, but there’s water pinch, hydrogen pinch, there’s other things. It’s mostly referring to the type of analysis that’s done. And there is a physical, you know, specific graphical aspect to it.

0:4:16.430 –> 0:4:24.800
Nathan Deutsch
Umm, but the gist of energy pinch is that you’re seeking to minimize energy consumption out of facility by maximizing heat recovery.

0:4:25.320 –> 0:4:54.350
Nathan Deutsch
Umm, within the within the facility processes, so it’s outside of the utilities you’re using, so this would be processes recovering heat with each other and the unique thing about it I guess is that it’s addressing the entire facility, so you’re not just looking at maybe a boiler economizer or something that’s specific.

 

You’re looking at the whole facility. And so it results in finding, you know, sometimes fairly unique pairings of process energy recovery because you’re looking at the whole facility.

0:4:55.490 –> 0:5:1.370
Nathan Deutsch
It also focuses on utility usage, particularly poor applications of utilities such as.

0:5:2.10 –> 0:5:22.10
Nathan Deutsch
You know, using chilled water to heat something that’s like 200 degrees, where you’re you’re really stretching, which you should be doing with a particular utility.

Similarly, if you’re using steam to heat something really cold, right, it’s seeks to align the utilities that are available with more appropriate usage based on temperature.

0:5:22.510 –> 0:5:45.920
Nathan Deutsch
Umm, I’ll also say that you know, energy pinch is specifically designed around primarily consistent processes, processes that are they don’t have a lot of fluctuation and oftentimes a lot of batch or intermittent processes can be omitted because it can be difficult to pair them because a decent amount of time you’re not gonna get that energy recovery if it’s a batch process, so.

0:5:48.370 –> 0:5:55.150
Nathan Deutsch
Moving on to kind of a graphical example, I think this is the best way to like understand what what pinch actually means.

0:5:55.550 –> 0:6:10.210
Nathan Deutsch
Umm, so this is an example just you know for a for a given site. If you had two processes, one that’s being heated and when that’s being cooled. So if you’re the one on the left, you’re hiding it from 60 to 100 degrees Fahrenheit.

0:6:10.510 –> 0:6:13.220
Nathan Deutsch
Umm, the energy that’s used to heat is governed by the equation. You know MCP delta T if anyone familiar with thermodynamics.

That’s the typical equation used for for heating anything.

0:6:25.580 –> 0:6:52.950
Nathan Deutsch
And So what ends up happening is the slope in this graph where the you know the X axis is the energy consumption, the slope is relative to the kind of the concentration of energy in a particular temperature range. And so right. And if you can see the one on the right, it’s more of a flatter curve line and basically the flatter it is, the more energy is being concentrated in a particular temperature range, something like a evaporator or something. We’re at a constant temperature would obviously be a straight horizontal line.

0:6:53.430 –> 0:6:53.830
Nathan Deutsch
Umm.

0:6:54.730 –> 0:7:4.900
Nathan Deutsch
So you take these two lines and this is just as an example for for two processes. Obviously pinch analysis is for the entire site, but you essentially take them.

0:7:6.320 –> 0:7:35.210
Nathan Deutsch
And then you establish which what’s called like an approach temperature, a minimum, a minimum temperature that you’d want, and that’s kind of relative to anyone who cites heat exchangers before kind of the minimum difference between two of the streams on the heat exchanger.

And you pick a good number and oftentimes 10 degrees is a typical approach temperature, you know, sometimes you can go as low as five or up to 15, but the lower you go, you essentially reach a point where you become.

0:7:35.670 –> 0:8:6.470
Nathan Deutsch
You get 2 heat exchangers that have an unrealistically large amount of surface area, so 10 is a good sweet spot typically, but you know it’s it’s site specific, but essentially you take the two lines on a graph and you slide them until they overlap and they will overlap. At that approach temperature that you’ve chosen and that’s that. The black vertical line is 10 degrees in this case, and any area that’s covered by the overlap is what is theoretically recoverable. If you were to design a heat exchanger to.

0:8:6.890 –> 0:8:37.900
Nathan Deutsch
Interchange energy between the streams and and then the the Purple line that I show is. If you were to continue sliding it right and allow this delta T to to approach zero, that’s what you considered. It either pinched and you can see it’s called the pinch because they you know it literally collides and it pinches out. So obviously at the pinch that’s the maximum amount of energy you could theoretically accomplish between the two streams, but it would also result in an infinitely large heat exchanger. So, but it is beneficial to know what that pinch temperature is.

0:8:38.10 –> 0:8:47.770
Nathan Deutsch
Umm. So yeah, basically show the example as well on the right, uh, with, you know, a counter flow heat exchanger and you can see on the bottom there between the two processes is a 10 degree delta.

0:8:49.320 –> 0:9:18.870
Nathan Deutsch
So that’s kind of pinch in a nutshell for, you know, a given two given processes of course facilities are a lot more complex than that and that’s where you know software becomes incredibly important to kind of make sense of the data. So here on the right is a graph kind of taking that approach and applying it to an entire facility where every stream that’s in red is governed by a different line and that’s all the streams that require a code utility.

0:9:19.290 –> 0:9:50.380
Nathan Deutsch
And everything on the that’s in blue requires a hot utility and you do the same thing. You graph the graph, everything for the site all in one graph, and you align them so that the gap between them and the minimum spot is the that pinch that approach temperature. And similarly you’ll result in an understanding what the pinch temperature is for this site. And it’s a nice reference for the entire site because the pinch temperature is a good easy reference for understanding non optimized heat exchanges.

0:9:50.470 –> 0:10:2.690
Nathan Deutsch
And instances where you’re using a utility in an instance where you potentially could avoid it, or you’re using one inappropriately like I was saying earlier, if you were to use chilled water, if you were using chilled water at something up in the, you know the.

0:10:4.650 –> 0:10:25.300
Nathan Deutsch
Up here, like where it’s hundreds of degrees, right where you could use in cooling tower water. That’s not a good application of of that utility. I mean, it would certainly work, but it’s violating the pinch is what we would say. So right, identifying the pinch temperature is beneficial because you can quickly understand if processes you currently doing are crossing or what we call crossing the pinch.

0:10:26.520 –> 0:10:47.970
Nathan Deutsch
There are examples of when you can cross the pinch, you only, I mean the major technology that you can use to to kind of cheat and cross the pinch is is heat pumps. If people are familiar with those where you take like a lower quality energy and convert it to a higher quality energy, we’re not really gonna get into that today. But there are examples when you can cross the pinch. It’s just typically not done. Heat pumps aren’t.

0:10:48.660 –> 0:10:55.990
Nathan Deutsch
Used a whole lot in in industry in America they they’ve started to find some application in Europe though.

0:10:57.290 –> 0:11:7.190
Nathan Deutsch
So right, essentially you should not, in an ideal setting which which there never is, but in an ideal setting you should not be using utilities to heat below the pinch and you should not be using.

0:11:7.530 –> 0:11:9.60
Nathan Deutsch
Uh, you know.

0:11:10.100 –> 0:11:12.460
Nathan Deutsch
Other utilities to cool above the pinch.

0:11:14.240 –> 0:11:17.70
Nathan Deutsch
So that’s a that’s a nice quick reference to establish for a site.

0:11:18.460 –> 0:11:28.350
Nathan Deutsch
So getting into like an actual the actual approach we take for performing a pinch analysis, there’s multiple steps. The actual application of the software is.

0:11:28.770 –> 0:11:37.300
Nathan Deutsch
Is. I wouldn’t say it’s the easy part, but it’s definitely you should have every all the data collected by that point, so we’ll just go through each step here.

0:11:39.470 –> 0:12:9.480
Nathan Deutsch
First step is is obviously uh. You have to understand the process and you know if it’s your facility, you should have a very fairly good understanding of that. And obviously ADF has worked in quite a few industries. We also have quite a bit of process knowledge, but it’s best if you don’t have a process flow diagram or something that’s documenting your process to develop one. And we can obviously help with that to go through the major steps of the process and follow it along. Note that this is just for the process, I mean utilities.

0:12:9.580 –> 0:12:13.150
Nathan Deutsch
Are are a key part of pinch analysis, but we want to understand what’s going on in the process.

0:12:13.650 –> 0:12:25.850
Nathan Deutsch
Umm, particularly anytimes heating, cooling and phase changes are occurring because that’s really the, you know, the streams that are of relevance to the pinch analysis. So oftentimes what we do is we identify what’s available for the site.

0:12:26.470 –> 0:12:30.680
Nathan Deutsch
You know and then develop a plan if needed for additional data logging.

0:12:31.720 –> 0:12:42.60
Nathan Deutsch
You know, having energy bills is is important. Obviously water and gas cause you can compare your data that you end up with with what the site is is actually using so.

0:12:43.20 –> 0:12:43.490
Nathan Deutsch
Umm.

0:12:44.620 –> 0:12:45.350
Nathan Deutsch
Let’s move on.

0:12:46.670 –> 0:12:54.60
Nathan Deutsch
The next step is to identify heating, cooling and phase changes. As I said, and document the data. So this could be.

0:12:55.350 –> 0:13:27.10
Nathan Deutsch
Kind of an important exercise in and of itself. Oftentimes you can have kind of Eureka moments during this during this data collection where you know you realize the process is doing something that you didn’t. You didn’t know that it was doing. So just collecting this data can be quite beneficial. But for every heat exchanger or every process that’s doing a heating cooling phase change, we want to document the mass flow, temperature in and out and the specific heat. In some examples, you’re not necessarily using this specific key like in a.

0:13:27.200 –> 0:13:38.730
Nathan Deutsch
In an evaporator you can kind of work backwards. You just you just get the energy and work backwards and then in the software you you typically set a really small temperature difference just so the software knows that it’s heating or cooling.

0:13:40.680 –> 0:13:44.120
Nathan Deutsch
And sometimes you break a stream up if the specific heat is.

0:13:45.290 –> 0:14:16.80
Nathan Deutsch
Intensely variable over a temperature range and a wet air over a temperature range that the specific heat can change quite a bit. So sometimes it can be beneficial to to break it into multiple streams, but but anyway, getting all the data in for every process is the most critical step and also the most difficult step, but it helps to have someone like ADF who has industry knowledge and we’ve worked in a lot of different industries where we can see what’s typically done in particular applications and know what kind of to expect.

0:14:16.160 –> 0:14:24.350
Nathan Deutsch
And also kind of what instruments would need to be potentially added if we don’t have the data we need or what assumptions we can make if if it’s not practical to add instruments?

0:14:26.600 –> 0:14:28.730
Nathan Deutsch
So the other important part is that.

0:14:29.590 –> 0:14:39.540
Nathan Deutsch
You know, it seems counterintuitive, but when you’re doing a pinch analysis, you want to ignore or omit. I mean, you want to understand them but ignore or omit any existing energy recovery. That’s done at a site and.

0:14:41.350 –> 0:15:1.720
Nathan Deutsch
You know this is because a lot of times when you perform a pinch analysis, you discover that existing energy recovery may have sounded good in theory, or is good like locally. But if you look at the whole facility, some of the existing energy recovery may not be optimal and you’d be better off pairing those streams elsewhere. A common one I see is.

0:15:1.790 –> 0:15:24.730
Nathan Deutsch
You know, boiler feed water. I mean it’s it’s a great place to pump energy into, but depending on the order in which you you heat the boiler feed water like if you went through an economizer first, right, that’s probably the last thing you should go through. So write a pinch analysis would allow you to understand you know sequentially what syncs you’d want to put into your boiler feed water for example.

0:15:26.10 –> 0:15:32.120
Nathan Deutsch
Umm, so right, once we have all the data, that’s where we start to involve the software and.

0:15:33.150 –> 0:15:51.920
Nathan Deutsch
The software we use is called simulis pinch. There’s a company called Prosim that has developed it. It is a it’s really nice because it’s an Excel add in. It’s just, you know, it runs right on top of Excel. So all the data that we input into Excel is all incredibly visible to anyone who would want it. I mean, we could send the Excel file directly.

0:15:52.460 –> 0:16:13.730
Nathan Deutsch
Umm. And So what it does is it you know it takes this. You essentially put the the the the data in this red box here and I like to put some extra data you know to describe the stream and and to summarize the energy as well. But really you need the physical state, the MCP which has to do with like kind of that energy concentration over the temperature range and then the temperatures.

0:16:14.560 –> 0:16:46.540
Nathan Deutsch
And it takes that data and plugs it all in to uh to plot the curves that I had shown earlier and to develop a first pass of a list of, you know, theoretical heat exchangers that could create the optimal energy recovery for the site. And you know, the first pass, if you don’t have any constraints can often be somewhat unrealistic, but it’s trying to get to as close as it can to 100% of the maximum energy recoverable, which is the theoretical number. But that’s where we get into the next step where.

0:16:46.610 –> 0:16:55.360
Nathan Deutsch
We apply constraints and the really nice thing about the software we use is that it has a lot of ability to apply constraints because you’re always going to have constraints.

0:16:57.50 –> 0:17:22.190
Nathan Deutsch
First of the first one which is helpful is is the degree of stream combination and this is 1 where you know in theory splitting a stream like boiler feed water for example into you know four different flow paths and interchanging them you know in the perfect combination may not be feasible and it may be cost prohibitive. So you can constrain the software to only look at 1:00 to 1:00 or not allow streams to be split.

0:17:22.690 –> 0:17:28.50
Nathan Deutsch
Ohm proximity is also another very important constraint that comes up a lot because.

0:17:28.930 –> 0:17:39.700
Nathan Deutsch
You know, depending on the site layout you can have streams that are just really unrealistic to to traverse the entire site. Sometimes the payback is worth it, but you can you can institute or you can.

0:17:40.390 –> 0:17:44.980
Nathan Deutsch
Create proximity constraints within the software where it won’t look at combinations if they’re too far apart.

0:17:46.490 –> 0:18:16.830
Nathan Deutsch
Compatibility is a big one. This is one that’s often industry specific. You know food industries. You may not want your your food to be interchanging with wastewater. You know, even if you had the greatest protection set up for it, you may just wanna have it set up to certain streams. Can’t mix with each other. And so again, you can kind of force the software to ignore certain combinations to avoid this. Another example would be if you don’t want flammables to leave a PSM area or something like that. And then lastly, and this one can kind of be iterative outside of the software, but.

0:18:16.950 –> 0:18:48.440
Nathan Deutsch
You can put you know limits on minimum payback, minimum energy recovery, so you don’t end up with, you know, 100 tiny heat exchangers. You wanna focus on kind of the, you know, the heavy hitters and focus on that. And also you can put in kind of maximum spend where if you had a limit on capital projects or something where you only want to look at specific range, you can limit it that way as well. So right once we’ve applied all those constraints which can be put right into the software, you can essentially iterate the simulation.

0:18:48.520 –> 0:19:1.170
Nathan Deutsch
And come up with a much better optimized list of theoretical heat exchangers and work from that list. And so once we’ve gotten to a, we feel like is a good list of theoretical heat exchangers, theoretical projects.

0:19:1.760 –> 0:19:16.730
Nathan Deutsch
Umm we generated summary report listing each project, each potential project with you know the energy savings, potentially the utilities that’s affected are that would be reduced by this project dollars and then payback.

0:19:17.790 –> 0:19:20.320
Nathan Deutsch
So we also like to list.

0:19:21.670 –> 0:19:39.410
Nathan Deutsch
You know the complexity of the project, right? If the site may not want to take on a, you know, a really complex maintenance intensive heat exchanging project, I think that’s that’s of relevance as well. And any of these projects for the most part are gonna potentially introduce new equipment. So right we we kind of.

0:19:40.380 –> 0:19:45.470
Nathan Deutsch
Summarize what additional equipment would be required, and so you can quantify any sort of maintenance impacts.

0:19:46.0 –> 0:20:13.360
Nathan Deutsch
Umm, after you know, after we’ve got the table put together and and all the challenges, we also identify you know next steps in and oftentimes kind of our our confidence interval with the capital cost we developed oftentimes if the payback is looking good on a project then you’d wanna perform additional engineering or have a vendor get involved to refine the scope and get to a better capital number.

0:20:15.280 –> 0:20:33.890
Nathan Deutsch
So that’s kind of the steps that we would typically take to perform a a pinch analysis, wanna talk a little bit more about the actual software that we use. As I said before, the software is called prosim or the software is called simulis, pinch to company who developed the software is called prosim.

0:20:35.420 –> 0:20:51.490
Nathan Deutsch
And as I said before, the the really the hard part, you know the the energy intensive part, the labor intensive part, the part that requires the most collaboration between us and our clients is understanding the process and obtaining the data. But applying that data to the software is.

0:20:52.130 –> 0:21:5.410
Nathan Deutsch
Really helpful with this simulis pinch software because it it it’s an Excel add in and you know it it sits on top of all the data that we’ve already collected and all that data is incredibly transparent and we can just send the Excel file.

0:21:5.970 –> 0:21:15.540
Nathan Deutsch
Uh, with all the charts that have been developed with the with the software obviously using software for pinch analysis is is pretty much a must.

0:21:16.730 –> 0:21:45.90
Nathan Deutsch
Once you get past, you know a few streams, the complexity of doing the these sorts of calculations by hand becomes fairly unrealistic. So right using a software is required and this one nice. It works very quickly is one also benefit of it and it generates some very nice visual aids and a lot of times when you’re presenting projects or you wanna get buy in from potentially finance individuals.

0:21:45.630 –> 0:22:15.860
Nathan Deutsch
You know, they don’t necessarily want to have a lot of math thrown at them. You can have these nice graphs that kind of show, you know, this, this one on the right is is helpful. It’s just another view of kind of the same pinch thing where you show each stream that’s being heated or cooled at the site and the temperature range it’s going and then how bold the line is is kind of that same energy concentration. So you can quickly identify the different processes that your site, what temperatures they’re operating in and how much energy is concentrated there. And then see where the pinch temperature is. It’s just a nice.

0:22:16.290 –> 0:22:20.70
Nathan Deutsch
A nice graph to to be able to explain kind of.

0:22:20.790 –> 0:22:50.590
Nathan Deutsch
With the pinch analysis is doing, uh, same thing with the one on the left, which is kind of hard to see, but it’s just a horizontal version of that same graph from earlier where it it really shows you know where where you pinch out and the two lines kind of represent the hot and cold utilities again which I can be quite beneficial because oftentimes you can see how much theoretical hot and cold utility you should be using at the site. And then you realize that what you’re actually using is quite a bit different than that. I mean, as I was saying before the.

0:22:50.780 –> 0:23:3.240
Nathan Deutsch
Collection of the data itself can can be I opening because you will uncover information that you didn’t realize or uncover. Maybe some some sins that the sites committing in certain.

0:23:3.910 –> 0:23:11.390
Nathan Deutsch
And certain applications of energy. Uh and and be able to fix those, you know, without even getting into the the whole pinch part of it, but.

0:23:13.110 –> 0:23:19.700
Nathan Deutsch
So as far as you know, what a typical project might look like coming out of a pinch analysis, I’ve got a couple examples here.

0:23:21.830 –> 0:23:25.980
Nathan Deutsch
One on the left is one that we’ve we’ve developed before.

0:23:27.430 –> 0:23:54.40
Nathan Deutsch
And a lot of sites use use dryers and you know anyone who’s used a dryer. You know, you’re essentially you start with with outside air for the most part and you’re heating it up, sometimes several 100 degrees with either steam or natural gas. And so you’re almost always starting with the air below. Whatever the site pinch temperature would be. And oftentimes you’re using a utility to heat it up to the pinch. And then obviously on to the temperature that you need for the dryer.

0:23:54.520 –> 0:24:6.60
Nathan Deutsch
Umm and many times in a dryer and specifically in current times because of uh, you know, EPA permitting requirements, you require scrubbers or a means to?

0:24:7.240 –> 0:24:37.40
Nathan Deutsch
You know, remove particulate from the exhaust from the from the dryer and a lot of times there there, there’s a significant amount of energy that is that is contained in that stream because typically you know you’re driving moisture off the product or whatever you’re drawing and you end up with saturated air stream that’s going to scrubber and all that energy is being kind of concentrated in that scrubber into a water stream. And a lot of times, I mean, in most instances, you just relieve that or you just exhaust that error to atmosphere and the scrubber water has kind of a bleed off to drain. So.

0:24:38.90 –> 0:24:48.490
Nathan Deutsch
One application or or one one approach for for this type of system is to install an interchanger or heat exchanger with a water and glycol loop to.

0:24:50.460 –> 0:25:7.810
Nathan Deutsch
To pump the scrubber water in a side stream or or the whole stream even through heat exchanger to recover some of that that energy into a glycol and water stream and then use the glycol and water stream to Preheat air. Obviously you want to use glycol and water if you’re in an area where the outside air is could be below freezing.

0:25:8.230 –> 0:25:27.910
Nathan Deutsch
Umm. And you kind of keep that whole system clean where you know, if you were to perform maintenance, you’d you’d only be mostly performing maintenance on that glycol and scrubber water heat exchanger instead of on the dryer itself. And you could continue running the dryer while taking that system down. So this is 1 application error, one project that could come out of pinch.

0:25:29.390 –> 0:25:44.240
Nathan Deutsch
Another one would be, you know, waste heat recovery off of condensate and this is this is one that I see all the time is it’s kind of you know misunderstood or or underutilized condensate recovery systems a lot of sites are.

0:25:46.10 –> 0:25:53.470
Nathan Deutsch
Underutilizing condensate, or maybe the system was designed with good intentions and enough projects have come along that have tied into it where?

0:25:54.30 –> 0:25:54.450
Nathan Deutsch
Uh.

0:25:55.360 –> 0:25:59.830
Nathan Deutsch
The site just flashes off condensate before returning it to the Deaerator and.

0:26:0.520 –> 0:26:25.200
Nathan Deutsch
There is an opportunity, a lot of times. I mean there’s there’s so much energy contained in condensate that you can install a flash vessel and these can be local to even where you’re using the steam to recover some of that flash steam. So you’re not just relieving it to atmosphere. And so in this example and this is just one right off of Armstrong, but this can be applied with different.

0:26:25.920 –> 0:26:49.450
Nathan Deutsch
With different downstream equipment, you could use mechanical pumps rather than this. This is showing a steam powered pump, but you install a high pressure condensate flash vessel to provide energy to a stream and then you also tie in you know a steam system to that same event. So that if there’s upsets in the condensate system or you know pressure fluctuations, you’re back filling with steam.

0:26:50.530 –> 0:27:13.330
Nathan Deutsch
You see this sort of. I mean, I’ve seen this sort of application used quite a bit and you know, so I mean, extraction facilities, sparge steam, it’s quite often used in any instance where you are using quite a bit of steam already. There’s typically an application where you can use flash steam from the condensate that you’re using and you just install another heat exchanger kind of upstream of your normal heat, your normal steam heat exchanger. So.

0:27:14.90 –> 0:27:33.240
Nathan Deutsch
Alright, this is just just a couple examples of some projects that can come out of a pinch analysis and just some ways to, you know, recover that energy. So I think that’s about all I had on my presentation for today. So I’m open to any questions if we have any in the chat.

0:27:35.780 –> 0:27:58.240
Tim Upton
Right. Excellent. Thank you, Nathan. That was awesome presentation. So like Nathan said, we’re gonna go ahead and open it up to questions for everyone in the audience. So Nathan covered a lot today. I’m sure many of you have questions on how some of what he covered might apply to your specific facility. So we’ll give it a minute or two and let you all type in some questions and then we’ll let Nathan answer them.

0:28:13.950 –> 0:28:22.650
Tim Upton
OK, Nathan, looks like we’ve got a couple coming in. So first question is, are there any situations where you would not want to use a pension analysis?

0:28:25.700 –> 0:28:25.970
Tim Upton
Right.

0:28:25.690 –> 0:28:26.180
Nathan Deutsch
Right.

0:28:27.500 –> 0:28:56.220
Nathan Deutsch
Yes, I mean there are, I mean it it is a useful tool, uh, where it’s applicable, but it it’s important to know when it’s not. I mean it can look very appealing and it is obviously, but in processes where batch semi batch or the system’s gonna be down quite a bit, it may not be applicable or it may only be applicable for that particular local process. If you can kind of have a closed loop within that process where everything that’s running is also.

0:28:56.300 –> 0:29:0.400
Nathan Deutsch
You know it. It’s running when when that equipment is running and when it’s down, it’s also down.

0:29:1.860 –> 0:29:13.470
Nathan Deutsch
But right a lot of times you wanna ignore or omit batch processes from the pension analysis just because it’s it’s difficult to capture that energy because it’s gonna fluctuate.

0:29:15.430 –> 0:29:16.210
Tim Upton
OK. Thank you.

0:29:17.130 –> 0:29:24.440
Tim Upton
Alright, so the next question is can pinch be used at a site that already has some energy recovery processes?

0:29:27.890 –> 0:29:28.320
Tim Upton
Yes.

0:29:27.760 –> 0:29:28.550
Nathan Deutsch
Yes.

0:29:30.700 –> 0:30:1.950
Nathan Deutsch
Right. I mean in in most sites do have energy recovery and but but a lot of times they’re put in specifically with a project for a specific area. So that’s what’s kind of nice about the whole facility approach is that you can, you know really look at is that the best pairing of that energy or not. I mean proximity is obviously important, but right there could be a much better fit for that energy than the existing energy recovery that’s being done at the site. So write the pinch will ignore that from the software perspective it will. I mean obviously we keep track of it but it would ignore it and see if there’s a better fit.

0:30:2.40 –> 0:30:16.850
Nathan Deutsch
For that energy, then, then what’s being currently done and that they’re gonna be kind of eye opening. I mean, yeah, boiler feed water be a great example, right. If you have an economizer and it’s the first thing you’re doing with the boiler feed water, that may not be the best. You know, the best it should be probably the last thing you do before it goes to the boiler.

0:30:19.560 –> 0:30:33.350
Tim Upton
OK. So our next question is, since we have a large number of process streams, is there a method to prioritize eliminate certain streams from the analysis or must all be considered?

0:30:35.0 –> 0:31:6.800
Nathan Deutsch
It’s a good question. You can do it a couple different ways. Uhm, one way is to you know, there’s actually a toggle in the software where you can just say, you know, I want this to apply towards my pen, my to determining my pinch temperature, but I don’t want it to be considered in any heat exchangers. Or you can just omit the data entirely, but I would probably opt for the first one because right. I mean it’s still energy that’s being used. Utilities are still being consumed for that process, but you can just say omit like you don’t want it to be mixing, right? I could think of several examples I mean.

0:31:6.890 –> 0:31:24.610
Nathan Deutsch
Photochemical like chemicals that you really don’t want them to to go anywhere, but obviously you’re heating them or, you know, certain processes, right where energy is being used and you just really, there’s really not a practical way to interchange them with something else. One that we came across is for starch example starch, starch slurry.

0:31:25.910 –> 0:31:46.500
Nathan Deutsch
You know you wanna dry it, which means it technically has to be heated to a point where it’s gonna evaporate, and then it evaporates. But in reality, you’re doing it all simultaneously. Because if you were to try to heat that starch slurry, it would gel and you wouldn’t want that. So right, you kind of have to cheat around a little bit with the software to force it to ignore certain things that, you know for sure or, like, not a practical.

0:31:49.310 –> 0:32:2.260
Nathan Deutsch
Yeah, or streams that are like too small of an energy where you just don’t wanna. You don’t wanna include them in the analysis because you would never. You wouldn’t, you know, a cost, the cost of doing anything with them wouldn’t wouldn’t pay back.

0:32:4.870 –> 0:32:12.500
Tim Upton
OK. And our next question says what if my facility does not have good process drawings or system documentation?

0:32:14.780 –> 0:32:16.20
Nathan Deutsch
Right and.

0:32:16.810 –> 0:32:38.330
Nathan Deutsch
I I mean it seems to be the case that a lot of sites where you, you have good documentation in some areas and maybe not in some others. So right that’s part of that’s really the most important part of this is is getting all of that data for all the heating and cooling and phase changes. And we usually take the approach of walk through the facility with knowledgeable personnel. Really you have to have facility buy in to some extent.

0:32:39.740 –> 0:32:51.60
Nathan Deutsch
Not, you know, not in excess of of involvement, but we do like to schedule, you know, one-on-one meetings with with key operators or key engineering personnel to really understand the particular areas and.

0:32:51.600 –> 0:32:55.290
Nathan Deutsch
Uh, and see what’s known and what could be gathered, you know from.

0:32:56.830 –> 0:32:57.830
Nathan Deutsch
Whatever data.

0:32:58.560 –> 0:33:19.600
Nathan Deutsch
Logging software you have if we can. If we can pull that data or if it’s really not being tracked, which which does happen often where where data is just truly not being tracked. And you know in that case, depending on what utility is being used, sometimes it can be easier to track the utility. You could use ultrasonic meters depending on what your flows you’re trying to track. You can put rental meters on.

0:33:20.780 –> 0:33:43.570
Nathan Deutsch
If there’s areas where it’s really not practical to do that either or you know if it’s gonna be like a year out before the next shutdown and you really want to do the pinch analysis Now, then we can obviously use assumptions. A lot of industries were familiar with that we can look at the rates that you’re running at and see what’s typical for that industry for that application. But right, the best case scenario is that the site has good data and we can work from that, but obviously.

0:33:44.360 –> 0:34:13.310
Nathan Deutsch
You’re never gonna have all the data you want, and so we will identify what data we need and kind of put in a plan to get that data. And you know it could, it could cause things to push out until we can get that instrumentation and get a good amount of data logged. But it’s gonna, it’s important in the long run because you really have to understand what the system’s doing. Otherwise, you’re pinch analysis is gonna not be representative of your site. And you couldn’t implement projects that are not.

0:34:14.320 –> 0:34:19.300
Nathan Deutsch
Violating the pinch or you know, not not doing what you think they’re doing unless you understand all the data.

0:34:21.480 –> 0:34:28.710
Tim Upton
OK, perfect. So it looks like there’s that is all the questions we’ve received. So this will be last call for questions.

0:34:35.500 –> 0:35:0.390
Tim Upton
Alright, I think that’s gonna do it on questions. So we will go ahead and conclude today’s webinar. We’d just like to thank everyone for attending. We appreciate you spending time with us. If you do have any additional questions, the best way you can reach out to Nathan is to go ahead and e-mail him at in deutsch@adfengineering.com and we will be sending out a recording of this webinar to all the participants today. So again on behalf of ADF. Thank you.

0:35:3.210 –> 0:35:3.860
Nathan Deutsch
Thanks everyone